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[RKennedy]

So, it’s been just under 3 months since selling my smart forfour and I think it was a huge mistake! The new car seems to be so unreliable, so expensive to run, repair and insure! I definitely took the 44 for granted! So I’ll be keeping my eye out over the coming weeks and hopefully be returning to the forfour world if I can find the right car. What’s the best model to get? I had the 1.3 petrol passion before selling it.. Petrol/Diesel? 1.3/1.5? It will be an AMT.

Thanks guys, hope you’ll accept me back 

[Ocracoke]

Course we will

A Passion was the top specification for a ForFour in AMT guise but to be honest, I would ignore that and simply find a ForFour that has the right features you want, regardless of the badge, there are plenty out there to choose from.

Engine... well you've already had a 1.3 and the 1.5 NA isn't that much different to be honest (apart from the extra torque lower down the rev range). A CDi will certainly give you more MPG and is just as fast on paper as either of the petrol engines but it is down to preference really. Whatever AMT you do get, the clutch actuator, if it hasn't been documented as being replaced, will likely need to be replaced at some point which can be a bit of an expense. 

I could be tempted to sell my 1.3 AMT...

[CrazyG]

The age old adege...."you won't know what you've got till it's gone"
rings true with the ForFour. For the age (and even now) no other
car comes close in running costs, economy, resistance to chassis
corrosion, rust resistant body panels, and ageless styling.
Ok, so there are a few downsides, such as thick 'A' pillars, wind noise,
cheapish plastic interior parts, and to a minor degree the handling.
(The 'quirks' of the AMT are taken for granted under the circumstances)

So yeah....it really is one heck of a car when you let it go, as you did.

But anyway, you would be more than welcome back in...
just a shame you didn't let me/us know sooner as only a week ago
I could have got my hands on a really nice 1.3 AMT with just 39k miles
on it for £950, but amazingly no one seriously took me up on the thread
I posted on it in the 'ForFours For Sale' section !
TBH, if I had had the room for it I would have bought it for myself as
it was a really nice one in blue/silver with an electric sunroof too !
(Ocracoke, you hang on to your lill beauty...you've spent a lot
 on it and you'd miss it too much if you did part with it  )

But anyway, there's another one quite close by both of us that looks
in good nick, although I've not been and checked it out (why would I ?)
again it's a 1.3 AMT, but with 120k on it. That's not the end of the world
for a Mitsi engine by a long way. The price is the thing...£700 at the mo
on 'fleabay', so it may be worth a looksee...

(Now sold...at about 11am today, 08Sep2017)
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Smart-Car-forfour-Passion/162650699193?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649

[Alex]

Having the 1.3 i'd go for the 1.5i, fuel consumption is the same basically but you have extra power in reserve for those rare occasions a 1.3 would be struggling.

The diesels are more involved, and with age maintenance becomes more of an issue.

[CrazyG]

I tend to disagree with you there Alex    (Makes a change eh ?)

The diesel will go on for far longer than a petrol, with only the
EGR and possibly the thermostat being the awkward but not
impossible to sort issues.
EGR can be kept clean/clear if decent fuel and oil is used, plus
adding the 200 ml of 2 stroke oil as per recent posts elsewhere
on the forum.
Thermostat...now that would seem the worst to get to and replace,
but if; as has been the case with one of my CDI's; the thermostat
has jammed/failed in the open position, then rather than attempt
to replace it I have fitted an inline thermostat in the top radiator
hose that is held in place with 2 jubilee clips so that it won't move.
As for my other CDI, I have instead bought an 'all-in-one' inline
housing (with the same thermostat inside) and I will 'cut and shut'
the top radiator hose to accomodate this nice 'shiny' housing as
and when the original thermostat starts to play up.

Ok, so I haven't touched on glow plug failure/s....
invariably it seems that it is usually just 1 that fails, and in nearly
all cases that I have heard of, the engine still starts...even if it does
take a few more cranks than normal. In other words leave it alone. 

[Deszus]

Go with 70kW 1.5 CDi. You can do gears changing on manual working like in new car for £15 like I did and it won't fail like AMT. And if drive wisely will save more fuel on manual.

Just don't buy a diesel without service history like I did. Had a few sensors and pipes to replace for about £350 all together... probably typical for car with 97k miles on the clock but I didn't know how and what to check.

And torque on 1.5 CDi is similar to Brabus. 155 lbf x ft on CDi to 170 lbf x ft on Brabus.

Where petrol 1.3 with same horse power as CDi (70kW or 94hp) has torque of 92 lbf x ft.

[RKennedy]

Thanks for the replies so far!

I can’t believe how rare they’ve become? When I was looking a couple of years ago I had loads to choose from.. now auto trader only has about 10!

[Ocracoke]

The numbers do fluctuate from time to time, as I say, plenty out there.

Where petrol 1.3 with same horse power as CDi (70kW or 94hp) has torque of 92 lbf x ft.

No one told my 1.3 AMT this - 114.2bhp and 116.6 ft-lb The AMT also has a 6 speed gearbox for that nice, quiet cruise plus the AMT gearbox doesn't weigh that much more than a MT gearbox (think there is a 5 or 10kg difference when I was looking for my current 454) so the MPG figures are going to be largely identical if driven in the same manner.

Ultimately RKennedy, it is up to you on what you want in your ForFour. I chose the 1.3 AMT because I felt it would be the quietest on a drive and I didn't need the extra oomph that a 1.5 has (plus, the grey frame with silver panels looked awesome). Most of the goodies in a 454 can easily be retrofitted as well.

[Problemchild]

1.5 diesel passion manual with as many extras as possible

map it

love it

JJ

[CrazyG]

Deszus, the 6 speed AMT in all versions is fractionally quicker to
60mph...PLUS...it returns even better mpg due to the 6th gear.
And re the 1.3 v 1.5 arguement...performance and mpg wise they
are more or less exactly the same, but obviously the 1.5 will 'pull'
a loaded car with more ease than the 1.3

Anyway RKennedy, irrespective of all that I'm sure you'll find the
one you want...if not now, then soon perhaps.

[Deszus]

What map 1.5CDi for, if mpg will decrease with power/torque?

If I will map my CDi 94hp for ppwer how big increase can I expect? And decrease on mpg?

[Problemchild]

120bhp and better mpg but ask G

JJ

[CrazyG]

Remap = Worse mpg if you boot it/drive it like sports car
            = Better mpg if you drive it like you did before the remap
            = More torque, which means acceleration is better, and you
                do not need to use as much throttle for as long as you did
                before the remap, which means less fuel used
                More torque also means less up and down gear changing
                which means better fuel economy as engine revs are lower

This is all very well and good if your CDI is a manual, however, if you
have an AMT then I would not advise having it remapped to more than
115hp, and even then do not attempt to drive it like a sports car.
Why ?
Believe me, if you do, then 95% of the time you will end up needing a
new clutch and a new dual mass flywheel every 18 months or so as the
clutch actuator isn't fast enough at engaging the clutch to take up
the power that is available, so it'll soon start to slip and burn/wear
out the clutch+flywheel. I know this from my own personal experience
+ 2 sets of them !
Oh, and there is no way to uprate the actuator, although there is/was
a company in Germany who did sell them. However, from all that I was
able to find out about it/them was that all they did was put a stronger
spring in it. That sounds all well and good, but the motor was not (and
cannot be uprated) to cope with the stronger spring.
In addition, it is well known that the drive shaft on the motor is known
to be a weak point and prone to possible failure, even with the standard
spring !  So, on that basis I would not recommend or advise anyone to
get one of those (if they are still available).

[BlackCDI]

We were planning of buying a Touareg V6 TDI for longer trips, we do around 45-50000 km per year. But no matter what, the little one stays in the family. Be toured the whole of Europe in it. From Croatian coast and Mediterranean over Austria, Switzerland, France, Belgium and the coast of Belgium to Dutch coast. Love that CDI. And bummer Germany is introducing new laws and no more diesels below Euro 6 norm in some of the cities.. Starting from 1.1.2018 Stuttgart will be the first city to introduce diesel ban..

I think I am gonna get another passion 1.5 petrol Amt for driving around in the cities.

[steddie eddie]

G'day BlackCDI,  the 1.5 petrol amt is a fantastic car and cheap to run,  see underneath my post.
Greetings,
Eddie.