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Author Topic: Unusual revs  (Read 21313 times)

cheapshots

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Unusual revs
« on: May 19, 2019, 12:18:14 PM »

Hi folks,

My 1.3 pulse semi-auto petrol did something odd yesterday - whilst stationary the rev counter would yo-yo between just above 0 (felt like it was going to stall) and 1500.

It kept doing this throughout my 10-min drive so I switched it off, back on and it has been fine since.

Please don't say throttle valve is dying, I've cleaned that part out twice in the space of two years :P

« Last Edit: June 21, 2019, 01:49:51 PM by CrazyG »
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CrazyG

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Re: Unsual revs
« Reply #1 on: May 20, 2019, 08:29:12 AM »

The MAF sensor in the TVA will need replacing many times before
the TVA itself gets anywhere near being 'worn out', so fear not.

When the TVA is 'new' the surface is cast or machined smooth,
but when you clean it with a pan cleaner/scotchpad it will inevitably
leave fine score marks in the surface. Those very fine grooves will
obviously tend to retain any 'crud', so it will get dirtier quicker than
a new one ever would. That will translate into the TVA needing to be
cleaned on average at least once a year depending on the mileage
AND the type of journey/use the car gets.
Why not; as an idea; undo and remove the air pipe that connects to
the TVA and blast inside the TVA with carb cleaner every 6 months ?
That might delay a 'full' TVA clean longer than once a year.

I've cleaned the TVA on my daughters 1.3 AMT at least a dozen
or so times, and replaced the sensor in it twice (after giving it a
careful clean 3 or possibly 4 times).  I now clean the TVA and
sensor in her car every year....and replace the sensor after its
been cleaned a minimum of 3 times, just as a 'precaution' even
though it might not actually need replacing.

However....that is not to say that the sensor is 100% the issue in
your case.

Have you tried a throttle/TVA reset ?
Insert ingition key and turn to position 1, so that the electrics are on
but the engine is turned off.
Press the accelerator pedal all the way to the floor (including kickdown
if you have an AMT/semi-auto).

Hold the accelerator pedal down to the floor for 5 seconds, then turn
the key back to 0 (off).

Now release the accelerator pedal and wait a minute or so before starting your car.
That's it. Done.

If that doesn't work, I'd suggest getting and fitting a new MAF sensor.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2019, 08:29:43 AM by CrazyG »
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cheapshots

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Re: Unsual revs
« Reply #2 on: May 20, 2019, 12:28:04 PM »

Thank you Crazy G.

I cleaned the MAP about 8 months ago at the same time of I cleaned the TVA (for the second time). The TVA was quite clean.

I followed this very helpful guide: https://www.forfour.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=245.0

Crazy G, I assume you mean this as opposed to cleaning the MAF?

I didn't realise I could clean the MAP without removing the TVA, I'll follow your advice and remove the air intakes and blast the bugger!

I'll also try re-setting the TA, thank you so much for the info.
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El Tel

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Re: Unsual revs
« Reply #3 on: May 20, 2019, 06:34:07 PM »

I seem to recall the MAP measures both manifold pressure (flow) and temperature in order to calculate the air mass, so it is quite sensitive. I wouldn’t try to clean it physically (ie toothbrush) or with too much force.

I used a dielectric solvent I bought off amazon usually employed for cleaning switches and circuits - it worked amazingly well at dissolving the gunky deposits. I applied a little at a time and let it drip off and dry.

I believe an MAF works slightly differently, it heats a grid and then by calculating the heat lost to the flow, figures out the thermal mass eg. mass air flow. I suspect it would be even more sensitive for cleaning.

Colder air is denser basically, but y’all knew that anyway.

If I’m off anywhere and you know better please do correct me but my point is an MAP and MAF do the same basic job in a different way.

If the 1.3 is like the 1.1 it’ll be an MAP.
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El Tel

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Re: Unsual revs
« Reply #4 on: May 20, 2019, 06:40:05 PM »

Ps, this forfour 1.3 is breaking in Ireland and might have a spare MAP going. Apparently the engine is fine... you can but ask.

https://www.forfour.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=6679.msg72763;topicseen#new
« Last Edit: May 20, 2019, 06:40:51 PM by El Tel »
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CrazyG

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Re: Unsual revs
« Reply #5 on: May 21, 2019, 12:51:59 AM »

Cheapshots....apologies...I did in fact mean the MAP....

And yes, as per the link for the Guide that you quote...you can remove
the MAP from the TVA on it's own.  Info on that is given about halfway
down in Kog's Guide, and it's what I do to be honest.
Oh, and if/when you do blast it with an aerosol of Brake Cleaner spray
do not have it held up more or less touching the MAP as the fine brass
element inside can easily be damaged. Blast it from about 3 inches.

G
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Re: Unsual revs
« Reply #6 on: May 21, 2019, 08:40:40 AM »

Thank you every so much El Tel & Crazy G
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cheapshots

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Re: Unsual revs
« Reply #7 on: June 04, 2019, 09:30:36 AM »

Bit of an update - I cleaned the MAP 2 weeks ago.

Yesterday, car went into limp mode with the engine management warning light. Switched it off, waited 5 mins and it was fine.

I've ordered a new MAP (£30 from eBay - bosch MAP) - let's hope that fixes her.
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cheapshots

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Re: Unusual revs
« Reply #8 on: June 21, 2019, 11:59:40 AM »

Hi all, so I fitted a new MAP 2/3 weeks ago and car fine.

Today it went into limp mode again, I restarted the engine and was back to normal but engine management light stayed on, sigh.

Are we thinking TVA now? :'(
« Last Edit: June 21, 2019, 01:50:05 PM by CrazyG »
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El Tel

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Re: Unusual revs
« Reply #9 on: June 21, 2019, 03:42:51 PM »

I reckon TVA sounds likely but get the codes read off your ODB2 port to confirm it 100%.
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cheapshots

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Re: Unusual revs
« Reply #10 on: June 22, 2019, 07:30:33 AM »

You are correct. The error codes threw up errors with the throttle body. Something along the lines of voltage is too high and end error with the pressure sensor.

I’ve cleaned the TVA three times in the 2.5 years I’ve owned the car and every time it’s not very dirty at all.

I guess it’s time to change it? Will call around for prices for new/used
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Problemchild

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Re: Unusual revs
« Reply #11 on: June 22, 2019, 08:05:43 AM »

As it’s electronically actuated it may have a fault with the control circuit

Good luck

JJ

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Re: Unusual revs
« Reply #12 on: June 22, 2019, 09:40:09 AM »

Thanks guys. The engine management light has gone now and car hasn’t gone into limp mode since.

Do you think it would be okay to carry on driving for now until the TVA dies completely?
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CrazyG

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Re: Unusual revs
« Reply #13 on: June 23, 2019, 07:45:11 AM »

You can clean the TVA as many times as you make cups of tea and coffee...
but did you take out and carefully clean the sensor as well ?
If not then that could be the issue, and besides you can only clean the
sensor so mnay times before you have to bite the bullet and replace it.
(Think circa 3 or 4 times, whereas the TVA body/butterfly you can clean
 ad-inifinitum.)
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454 - Passion CDi 95hp (manual, Brab body kit, coilovers etc)
454 - Passion 1.3 (manual, Brab body kit, lowered etc) [SORN'd]
451 - Pulse Turbo [my daily drive] (mapped, coilovers etc)
450 - 'Widestar' bodied Passion 700cc [SORN'd]

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Re: Unusual revs
« Reply #14 on: June 23, 2019, 07:50:30 AM »

Hi crazyg

Do you mean the the MAP sensor? If so, I replaced the sensor 3 weeks ago.
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