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[funkydoodycool]

I'm sick of potholes in my brab. They seem to be everywhere and I seem to find them all.

One possibility is a second car for driving in worse weather, and I'm thinking of staying faithful with a fortwo.

Those of you who own or have owned one, perhaps you can give me some advice on what to look out for in terms of spec, engine options etc?

I'd join a more relevant forum but between this and the Micra Sports Club I'm all forumed out!

[mr singh]

a fortwo it WILL need an engine rebuild (FULL) at around 60-80,000 miles.

the 700cc engines are 'better' but will still need rebuilding. the brabus fortwo has an oil cooler which seams to make the engine last longer... havent hurd of a brab requiring a rebuild as yet. the 450 never officially had the diesel option and were all grey imports, the 451 has the diesel option but only has a 5 speed box. all 450's have 6 speed boxes which are better for fuel economy

[CrazyG]

I'm afraid that there will always be a problem with maintaining the
highways until the Government stops all the cutbacks it keeps making.
And we all know that the majority of the money we fork out in Road
Tax is 'farmed off' and put to other uses. So all in all it's not a good
situation.  This all does very little for the likes of those that run a
Brabus or any vehicle with 'sporty' suspension and wheels/tyres.

You could change your wheels to a slightly smaller diameter (16") and
then 'up' the profile of your tyres so that you get a more 'cushioned'
ride (sidewall flex) that will absorb the bumps and bangs etc.
eg., 16" dia with 215/40/16 tyres will have a higher sidewall than
a 205/40/17 but same rolling radius.
There could be a 'trade off' with a reduction in the limits of the cars
handling compared to the normal wheel/tyre set-up, but not in most
cases to the high degree one would expect, as the profile is wider at
215 vice 205.
(Yes I know the rear has an even larger profile, but then it is more
 often the front wheels that suffer damage due to the distribution
 of he weight of the car).

As to a ForTwo (451).....you'll notice the potholes just as much if not
more so in one of those ! Trust me....I drive one around fairly fequently
and it jars just as much (if not more so) as being in my modded CDi !

So my suggestion is....either get to know your roads and learn where
the potholes are and avoid them, and/or change wheels/tyres as I
have suggested above.

[lil.smartie]

Nanak, 3 loan cars all on 85,000+ all original engines... Did a 599 on 145000 kms last week so no not all 450's need a rebuild before 80000!

You'll find them hard to control, if they spin on ice they spin, even had a fully trained persuit driver, traffic cop spin one into a ditch! Skinny wheels good for snow though. I love mine & won't sell her, Holly loves Smartie too!

G is right though, 16 or even 15's and winters are fine, 15" steelies & some winter tyres will be cheaper than a refurb for all 4 corners and keep the wear off the summer tyres. Not too bad a ride either. Not priced them but prob about £100 for rims & tyres for about £250 fitted.

Kate

[Alex]

205/50R15 tires would be the ideal compromise (if you can call it that) between roadholding and comfort. 215/40R16 have a smaller rolling diameter than 205/40R17, you need 225/40R16 to stay in the same ballpark.

Get good winter tires and you will have no problems with grip in cold wet weather. I bet you they outbrake, out-corner and out-accelerate your summer ones, even performance tires.

[mr singh]

Nanak, 3 loan cars all on 85,000+ all original engines... Did a 599 on 145000 kms last week so no not all 450's need a rebuild before 80000!

i stand corrected! its just that all the ones i read about are around the 60-80,000 mile mark

[Problemchild]

Think the point with the 450s is that when things go wrong (which is common) then a new wheel for a pot hole fades into insignificance.

There are companies who are snowed under with rebuild work !!

Options

1. Get better lights (I see potholes a mile off)
2. Drive slower (difficult I know)
3. Drive the same roads and learn them (yawn)
4. Get smaller wheels and fat tyres (ugly as hell)
5. Buy a £200 micra as hobby #2 (thought you had one)
6. Claim claim claim (potholes site etc)

JJ

[Scoobysook]

You could always get a micra. Will be better than a fortwo as wheelbase is longer

[CrazyG]

There are companies who are snowed under with rebuild work !!

450 engine rebuilds ? Most are recon's with 'con' being the main word and contentious point.

Many are in for repairs due to burnt out valves.  Repairers wip off the head, clean it up,
put in a new valve and head gasket, tell you it's reCONditioned and that'll be £600 thank
you very much.....
only for the owner to find 6 months later that the reason the valve burnt out was that the
rings on number 3 piston are still seized in their slots as they were before, and that
oil is still getting past them and onto the valve (oil burns at a higher temp than petrol), and
the new valve has now burnt out and they are back to where they were 6 months ago !

Others are in due to timing chain tensioner failure. The chain slaps about and
cuts/chews into the block and deposits nice metal bits into the oil !
That is usually terminal, but if caught in time can be fixed.....but as the
engine has to be taken to bits to fix it, an complete rebuild should really be considered
as everything else will be worn as well.

A proper rebuild uses new bearings, new timing chain, new tensioner, the head cleaned
up and new valve guides fitted, new valves, and the cylinder bores checked for wear and
ovality for the entire depth of the bore. If within tolerance the bores should be honed till
perfectly oval for the entire bore, and new pistons and rings fitted. Then new gaskets,
spark plugs etc etc, and finally.....if the engine is out, fit a complete new clutch+flywheel
unit and release bearing.
After all, why go through all the rigmoral of lowering the engine and removing the gearbox
6 months later (plus the labour) to fit a new one when you can do it all now ?
Done properly you can give this rebuild (not a reCON) a 12months warrantee.
You'll then know it will power your car for another 60k+ more miles without a problem.
As for the cost, consider all that's involved, including the labour cost to remove and rebuild
and refit...about £1800 complete. 
(That's assuming the bores aren't worn so bad that new oversize pistons are required.)
If that sounds a lot, consider that MB charge over £3.5k for a replacement engine, without
any ancilliaries such as plugs, filters, oil, or a clutch.... or fitting !

[funkydoodycool]

I'm very into the idea of getting a new Micra - my history with them is entirely positive.  They're amazing, overlooked cars.  Well, pre-Renault.  But we knew that.

As for winter tyres for the Brab... the only reason I would consider it is for reasons of cushioning the potholes.  Tonight's temps here are -4C, and even though I can spin the wheels at 30mph easily I've had nothing but complete confidence on corners and roundabouts.  That's with a spare wheel on the front axle too (my old Brab 7" one) with different offset and tyre to the others.

Potholes just pee me off so bad.  They're EVERYWHERE.  The two I've hit recently have been on major roads, the kind of A roads that you'd normally expect to be maintained like motorways.  Which are also poorly maintained.... The two holes that have done damage are on roads I don't know, and am unlikely to go there again any time soon too.

[Brabs]

Yep, potholes are a nightmare! For anyone who hasn't come across this organisation >>>
http://www.fillthathole.org.uk/    I can recommend it.

Once a pothole has been logged the relevant authority is legally obliged to fix it!

Ok, I know that it is often 'closing the stable door after the horse has bolted' but at least it
might stop someone else from hitting the hole and causing them damage. They also have
a smartphone app. I use it a lot. It is extremely user friendly and I can say first hand that
logging road damage does work!
 

[CrazyG]

Apologies Brabs for amending/updating your post, but the info you gave I think
is so helpful and relevant that it should be displayed predominantly, so that people can
see it..make a note of it...and then use it... hopefully.
If it was more widely publisized then I'm sure we wouldn't have many potholes at all.

And apologies to funky for amending the orginal title of this post....again, done for
the same reason.

[mozilla]

This was exactly the reason i got rid of my first brabus... I dont know any other car so vunerable to pot holes... What I did was upsize the tyres to 205/45/17 and 225/40/17 and while this worked in protecting the rims, the car lost a lot of pace and mpg suffered slightly. The rear larger tyres did rub initally but this was solved with some zip ties to keep the inside of the wheel arch away from the tyre. They definitely worked save the wheel a few times though as once passing through a narrow traffic obstruction I hit the front wheel head on to a kerb with a horrendous thud. Upon examination rubber from the tyre had smeared part of the rim black, however the wheel was still round  

[funkydoodycool]

I don't wanna end up with a bigger total diameter, so I was thinking of downsizing to 16 or maybe even 15 inch rims with proportionately deeper profiles, such that acceleration is the same (or better due to lighter wheels) but nice cushioning.

I imagine as long as I invest in good tyres to avoid excessive sidewall flex that could be a viable option without ruining the handling.

[Brabs]

Wonder if you have thought of another forfour rather than fortwo to run alongside your Brab? My 1.1 Passion fits the bill for me.