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[minimayhem]

So I've narrowed the search down to three different cars.  All are within my very small budget and have decent miles.  The question is, the 1.1 or the 1.3?

This is a question of what will return the most MPG.  Thinking about it, I probably drive 70/30 city driving/motorway.  That may shift, but by how much I'm not sure.  Worse case, 50/50.

What's the better option in this scenario?

[Ocracoke]

The gearbox will have an influence on MPG as the manual is a 5 speed and the semi-automatic is a 6 speed.

From a 1.3 Semi-Automatic perspective, this combination is lovely. Nice and quiet below 3000 and then when above that, it howls as it is a VVT engine. Around town (unless someone can correct me on this), the 1.3 is probably going to be no different in terms of drive to the 1.1 although the 1.1 is going to be a little more fuel efficient but not overly so I would have thought.

On the motorway, the 1.3 has a lot of pull and will quite happily shuttle you around at national speed. The 1.1 will be louder (it is a 3 cylinder engine over the 4 cylinder 1.3) but it is more characterful and isn't less capable. I can average about 50mpg on a calm drive in town and on a motorway.

Of course, the MPG figure also comes down to how you drive it.

[Alex]

Hello,

Both engines are absolute crackers, so do not dismiss a car based on engine alone. I would just get the best kept, highest spec car i can find regardless of the engine it has.

Fuel economy mostly depends on driving style and road conditions, and these two cars would return very similar MPG when driven in the same manner.

If you are a patient driver,and rarely go over 55mph, the 1.1 will return the best fuel economy.

If however you constantly need most of those 75hp that the 1.1 has to offer than the 1.3 may be better suited with it's slightly longer gear ratios and extra power reserve, so you don't have to rev it as hard to get up to speed.

Fuel economy goes down when revs go up, because pumping losses are greatest then. Drive with moderately low revs,large throttle angles and use the car's momentum, anticipate traffic and use engine braking and coasting to slow yourself down in advance.

Also, the wheels you have play a huge role in fuel economy, 14" wheels return the best MPG, while the 17" ones make the car very harsh, the steering heavier and it tends to follow any imperfections in the road surface or change in camber, increase fuel consumption a lot but make the car look sexy.

So the most MPG would be achieved with a small engine, small wheels, and cruising at 2500rpm. Also, the AMT has 6 speeds, so a 1.1 AMT with 14" wheels should be great for cruising.

What cars were you thinking of, specifically (links?)

[minimayhem]

Brilliant responses, thanks all! And fast.  Just makes me want the car even more.  I'm a car nut and love being part of a community and attending meets. 

The car will absolutely be a manual.  I do all my own maintenance and will give the car a complete service upon purchase to try and eek the most out of it.

I was looking at these:

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201605244261701?onesearchad=Used&onesearchad=Nearly%20New&onesearchad=New&model=FORFOUR&radius=1500&make=SMART&advertising-location=at_cars&sort=distance&postcode=kt89bt&year-to=2007&page=1

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2004-SMART-FORFOUR-PULSE-SILVER-ONLY-62-000-MILES-2-OWNERS-/252637520960?hash=item3ad25ea440:g:nN8AAOSwal5YDPCC

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201610259111251?make=SMART&sort=distance&onesearchad=Used&onesearchad=Nearly%20New&onesearchad=New&model=FORFOUR&advertising-location=at_cars&radius=1500&year-to=2007&postcode=kt89bt&page=2

I really like the Passion to be honest, the sun-roof sounds great, but in reality it shouldnt be a deal clincher.  The LPG conversion has heated seats and seems the highest spec of the lot, but equally does not have the 1.3.

The 1.1 Pulse I'm slightly weary off, as the MOT advisory is on a wheel bearing, which in itself doesnt look to hard or costly to fix, but is a pain.  It is however peanuts, but also the lowest spec.

[Brabs]

Can't speak about the 1.3 but my 1.1 is an absolute fracker! 

[Ocracoke]

The LPG conversion has heated seats and seems the highest spec of the lot, but equally does not have the 1.3.

I've avoid a LPG converted car... they have been known to have issues but then again... leather seats...

All Passions had the Panoramic roof and Air Condition so should be better specced than a Pulse but the 1.1 Pulse appears to have the better specification than the 1.3 Passion (?!!). If you don't mind retrofitting parts, the trim level won't make that much difference in all honesty. If it is the rear bearing, this is pretty simple. If it is the front, that is more complex as you might imagine.

The 1.1 Pulse seems to need the headlamps cleaning I think but that is not much in the grand scheme of things.

I'd go for (and did get) the 1.3 engine because it was quieter which sounds odd but heck, if I needed it to be louder, go past 3000 RPM

I'd give them all a try.

[Alex]

It is however peanuts, but also the lowest spec.

They are all interesting, i'm most tented by the blue and silver 1.1 pulse with the comfort pack (because that's what i miss on mine), and it also has the multi function steering wheel which is hard to retrofit. It might seem low spec but is actually a gem, it's much easyer to add the other extras, but not the ones it has.

Mine had a rumbly wheel bearing since i got it second hand in 2008 and only failed last winter, after driving with the wheels seized (the high temps finally got to it). If that's it's only fault i'd go for that.

The 1.3 also looks good although be careful with that ones tracking, looks as if it had an accident and the rear axle may have suffered. Other than that, i have a pulse 1.3 so what's not to love about it?

The LPG conversion may be hazardous, but if you have experience with those and see that it's working fine, then that should be dirt cheap to run. However valve clearance is something most of these cars never got checked anyway, and i think LPG compounds this issue, so the 1.1 engine may be shot, or on it's way out.

As we know and love forfours i think neither will disappoint, but better safe than sorry

PS It seems we're just as excited as you You get a new car, we get a new friend

[minimayhem]

How can you guys tell that the pulse has a higher spec than the passion?

[Problemchild]

have you defo ruled out the diesel??

that engine is rock hard!!

plus stick with passion spec to get the panoramic roof

pure
pulse
passion

...are the increasing spec levels

JJ

[Ocracoke]

How can you guys tell that the pulse has a higher spec than the passion?

The multi-function steering wheel and armrest were only a cost add on I think. The roof on a Pulse is a solid plastic affair whereas on the Passion, as Problemchild says, is a panoramic roof. I went to the trouble of retrofitting a MF wheel to my car (amongst other things) so as I say, retrofitting these types of things make the trim level almost moot.

[minimayhem]

Ah I see! I have ruled out the derv, I'm really against dervs and decided never to own one. But I dont judge anyone that does!!!

Ah now I'm torn. The multi function steering wheel looks cool, but so does the panoramic room.. Arg!

[Problemchild]

ok - without telling you what to buy this is what you should buy haha

1.3 or 1.5 passion spec

externally look out for auto headlamps/wipers and to get the benefit from the styling then 2 tone and panoramic roof

internally look for radio6 (double sized), sub woofer under the passenger seat (should come with the radio6), arm rest, electric windows front and rear and m/f steering wheel and the tumbling rear seats

generally look for stippling of the metal safety shell ahead of the rear wheels, leaking rear shocks, noisy wheel bearings

the thing about these cars is that no one understands them so spec does not change the price much

always wait for the one you want - it will pop up soon

and travel - its worth it

feel free to tell me to poke off haha

JJ

[Problemchild]

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2005-SMART-FORFOUR-HATCHBACK-1-5-Passion-PANORAMIC-GLASS-ROOF-/162247018729?hash=item25c6ad08e9:g:-PIAAOSwUEVYCHDI

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2005-SMART-FORFOUR-HATCHBACK-1-3-Passion-5dr-/371746901710?hash=item568dd78ece:g:Md8AAOSwmfhX6ULA

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Smart-car-ForFour-1-3-2005-QUICK-SALE/272451564164?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D2%26asc%3D38661%26meid%3D5bd06ebe822e4fec8204b87bbde1ab12%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D371746901710

JJ

[mr singh]

having had a 1.1 and clocked up 60,000 miles in the 5 years i owned it i have to say it was the best of the 3 cars iv owned... you could thrash the nuts of it and it would still give me 420 miles to a tank. full of character and a peppy, eager little engine, always wanting to go. imagine it like a hyper little dog wanting the ball, once you throw the ball it runs and loves you for it.

i brought my sister and her uni mate back to leeds from farnham with a stop off in london, boot full and the seats folded (sisters mate sat in the back on the 'single' seat), all seamed more than comfortable. and then a trip from leeds to dillingen an der donau, a journey of about 850 miles 1 way, again 3 passangers (myself, dad and sister), boot full of luggage, and even some in the back seats, and my sister was still comfortable. even had enough grunt to get to 110 on the autobhan, basically maxed it out with a full car.

i now have a 1.5 SB3, a 1.5 engine with the rare brabus tuning pack, and that is more laid back. plenty of go with it having 120 bhp instead of 109 bhp.

the blue and gray 1.3 looks the part, the titanium trid is uncommon, but id be asking why the owner wants a quick sale? is there anything wrong with it as there isnt much info in the description. you may be able to get it cheaper as the owner wants a quick sale

the blue and silver 1.3 is from a dealer so it should be in good condition... it may come with a warranty

the black 1.5 has the toys... and is cheaper than the 1.3 blue and silver

if your willing to travel then you can get a good deal.

i bought my 1.1 from a garage in Birmingham. i was in leamington spa on a training course and managed to get away early, saw the car, paid the deposit, came back to leeds and picked the car up that same weekend.

my SB3, i went to view it at a garage in Grimsby, spoke to the then owner of the car (story for another day) and then got him to deliver the car to me about a month later, in fact it would be around this time last year i got it

[minimayhem]

I've been reading a lot of your posts about your 1.1, good read!

So after consideration, my plan is as follows.

Spoke with her ladyship.  She told me I was an idiot for even considering the panoramic roof as a factor, in much less but far harsher words.

So.  The price of the 1.1 is lower, has the MF steering wheel, cup holder (I have terrible MPC (miles per coffee) so that will get used a lot.  I also has less miles and apart from the wheel bearing advisory on the MOT, seems in good nick.  I've had to clean headlights before and thankfully have a rotary buffer so no worries there.

The smaller engine size should prove useful for MPG when I'm driving around London and the hills by the rents. 

I uh, also much prefer the colour scheme and rims.  These cars are super cute looking!

Thinking about it, I wont be going on long distance journeys often, so I'm not sure the 1.3 makes as much sense in the medium term. 

So, I'll be viewing the 1.1 on Saturday with a mind of buying it, providing the condition is good.  If its not, then the 1.3 is only 30 minutes away.  If neither of them are good, then ah well, I'll keep looking.

Main plan is to give it a complete service of all consumables, install a cruise control unit and a improve the sound system, if required.  Not sure what the stock is like.

Can't wait, very excited