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[cheapshots]

Terrible news guys, my wife took the car to the lovely people at S2Smart (where she even met Crazy G) and they found the following:

1. car has signs of large impact N/S rear
2. O/S rear wheel bearing rumbling
3. rear axle showing signs of wear on bushes
4. both tyres showing signs of ageing
5. exhaust unusually low
6. all disc lipped

Thank god I paid by credit card, I'm now drafting a letter to the seller requesting my money back plus costs and compensation. I'm also going to speak to the card company about a refund under Section 75 of the Consumer Credit Act.

Crazy G kindly took pictures for me (see attached), they even spray painted the damaged metal frame in black so as to cover it up

[Ocracoke]

Oof...  So sorry to see this. Was/is there any record of the impact from a HPI check (i.e was it a Category C/D)? 

[cheapshots]

HPI was completely clear. They must have done a cowboy job outside of insurance.

[Problemchild]

was this a garage i assume? 

http://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/advice/the-second-hand--car-i-bought-has-a-problem-what-are-my-rights

this may help but sounds like you know what you are doing already

JJ

[cheapshots]

Thanks for the link. Yes it was a garage and yes I will be excersising all my rights!

For those that are interested the seller admitted (via email) that he covered the twisted metal frame with under seal to prevent corrosion, he stated he is an honest seller. I wonder why he did not mention this when I asked if the car has ever been in an accident .... will keep you all updated.

[CrazyG]

I've already replied via PM to the owner my opinion on the car
and a 'rough' guesstimate' on what it could cost to fix everything.
TBH, it really depends on whether one would be happy to have/keep
it after it has been fixed.
1/ The rear impact damage in my eyes is not really a 'show stopper',
    and the rest could be fixed relatively cheaply...if one could
    & did do a fair bit oneself, but if you're not mechanically inclined
    then it would cost to get someone else to do the bits.
2/ Exhaust...get a quote from a good exhaust place (not KiwkFit)
               for a 1.3 Colt, 2005, 5 door...or...buy the parts on ebay
               from upwards of around £195 (incl catalytic converter)
               and find someone to remove the old and fit the new system.   
3/ Tyres are easy and cheap to source...www.blackcircles.com
4/ Rear wheel bearing...not that much to buy...or fix...or expensive to
    have it replaced.
5/ Discs and pads..again, bargains can be found on ebay....as I found
    out when I got Ferodo one's for my daughters AND my ex wifes
    ForFour's quite recently. I think about £65 for the fronts. I did them,
    but if you paid someone to do it...1 hour to do them, so say £70 or
    so labour cost.
6/ Rear axle bushes...They're not completely knackered...yet, and as
    the car currently has an MoT, then I would be inclined to leave
    having the beam axle replaced till near the time of the next MoT.
    PS: you cannot get new bushes from MB/Smart. You have to buy
          the rear beam axle with the new bushes in it. You can however
          get 'aftermarket' replacement poly bushes. They are harder
          and will transmit more road noise, but they take a lot of work
          to fit, and at £120 a pair + 3 to 4hrs labour to remove the old
          bushes and fit the new poly bushes works out just as expensive
          or maybe more so than getting a new rear beam axle from
          MB/Smart and having it fitted !

So there you have it.....
It's worth arguing for a refund of a lump sum of something close to £800
to cover the items (and labour cost) that need fixing and then getting it
all done...OR go for a total complete refund.

It really is down to the individual...and what they'll be happiest with.

[cheapshots]

Update: I spoke to the seller just now. To be fair to him, he was concerned about the situation too and agreed that he should have told me about the damage, especially because I directly asked "has it been involved in any accidents"

Here's what I'm requesting he refunds:
1) Car £1700
2) Service £200
3) Compensate me £100 for fuel and time (dealer is 60 miles away one-way)

He was accepting of the fact that the car can be refunded, we talked a little about the other costs, I think he'll agree to pay. I'm reasonable and we both agreed that for a 12 year old car certain things are to be expected and spending a couple of hundred pounds would be acceptable.

So, the documented damage is:
1. Car has signs of large impact N/S rear - can't fix this however does reduce the cars value
2. All disc lipped - I will change at my cost
3. Both tyres showing signs of ageing - I will change at my cost
4. O/S rear wheel bearing rumbling - Garage to fix
5. Rear axle showing signs of wear on bushes - Garage to fix
6. Exhaust unusually low - Garage to replace the whole exhaust including the cat

Do you think the above is fair ? Also, do you think it's fair for me to request a figure of £700 from the seller?

[Problemchild]

hmmm - are you not now treading in a grey area??

you can return the car for a refund for no being as sold but a garage does not have to sell a car fully serviced with new brakes and all suspension components replaced? thats all part of the sale discussions.

this is the sort of thing a main dealer would maybe sort on a 3 year old car but not an independent car sales on a 12yr old car?

i would think the only thing you can get some money back from is the damage that was undisclosed and that you specifically asked about.

you can't get the £ back to repair, just the difference in value. and as the damage is minimal so not deemed needed to be repaired and its been treated you may want some off but on the open market this prob only drops the price a few hundred ££

i personally think that asking for almost 50% off the car is too much as even as it stands, it's not worth that little

JJ

[CrazyG]

TBH it's not a 'large impact N/S rear'...I would say minor.

As JJ says...a service is not to be expected as part of any sale,
and replacement of brakes only necessary if it had failed an MoT.

The 2 biggest things I would push for are..
1/ to get the rear axle beam replaced. That has to come from MB/Smart,
    and is the most expensive to replace.
    It may well have passed an MoT, but seeing the amount of movement
    in the bushes for myself I doubt any other test station would pass it
    at this moment in time'.
2/ have the exhaust fixed. They may just get away with new front cross
    member mounting rubbers and replacing the centre section as that is
    the part that is sagging and bowed. However, I think there is a very
    good possibility that the rest may end up needing to be replaced
    when they try to separate the system due to the ondition/age of it all.
    That will be their problem if that happens.

Really, if you want to haggle over what you can get, then anything
'extra' to the 2 as above is a bonus...but not necessarily to be expected
for/on a 12year old car, so don't ask for £700 in addition to any repairs
as that I think that is going a bit far. See what he is prepared to do,
but in the end you could both just disagree and call a halt to any further
negotiation and demand a full refund.
Any costs outside that, such as your time and fuel is something that
I am not au fait with to say yes you can or no you can't claim for.
Can anyone else advise on that side of things ?

[cheapshots]

Thanks very much for the helpful comments. The seller has responded to me with a choice of:

1) Full refund of the car (I must return it to him, he's 60miles away) but no refund of the £200 service or any compensation for that matter

2) He will send me the full exhaust (with cat) and bearings in the post (he states it will cost him £255 + VAT + postage)

[Problemchild]

so take the £350 he would be spending on parts

get a nice stainless exhaust system guaranteed for life

wheel bearing can wait

at least you now know all the probs with the car (which you wouldn't if you returned it and bought another)

in the end, its a 12yr old car - i shiver at the thought of buying a 12yr old fiesta

JJ

[cheapshots]

Settled for £300 in the end. I did not have it in me to fight for more plus I think it's almost a fair compromise.

In general, the seller was cooperative and polite hence I agreed to £300. Let's hope the car is worth it

[Ocracoke]

So you still have the car? I know you've already noted what needs replacing and who is doing it, is the garages actions underway?

[cheapshots]

Yes I still have the car. I have yet to start the repair work on the car. The most pressing issue is the exhaust right now which I will try to sort out by next week.

[Problemchild]

let me know how you get on straightening out that kink as thats what mine now looks like (albeit on the other side)

JJ