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[El Tel]

Public transport in European capital cities is so good, and cheap, and parking is so onerous and exoensive. Why not park in Cascais for example, and get the train in in 20 minutes?

In the example I gave, I was kind of thinking of Lisbon actually. I have a friend who's a native of Lisbon (he lived in Almada to be exact) and had a Smart Fortwo. I spent many summers there learning to surf and perfecting my Portuguese, and I noted that it's pretty common to park a Smart car sideways there because parking is so tight. I doubt he would have bothered driving to Cascais to park when he lived even closer than that... nonetheless he still drove to work rather than use the train.

It's for people like him, who live in places where Fortwo is a really useful car to have, but might want to put on the range extender to drive to Madrid, perhaps.

I agree it's a bit of a solution looking for a problem, so it's really specific cases where this is genuinely the best option (I've already said as much) but I applaud the ingenuity and I really do think there is potential in the concept.

[CrazyG]

Side tracking/hijacking a bit here....unlike in most European cities, it is illegal
to park a ForTwo sideways on in the UK. The reasoning behind this is that there
are no reflectors on the sides, so on a dark poorly lit street/road one could
quite litterally T-bone into one.
I'm not sure if anyone has 'applied' adhesive or screw on side reflectors to any
ForTwo in the UK and attempted to park it...to see if 'the boys in blue' have
then slapped the owner with a ticket/fine, but I'd be pleased to know if there
is anyone who has heard of this or has any experience as I would definitely
'stick' some on my 451 if it was ok and park it sideways on if the need arose.

[snookey]

I'm not sure if anyone has 'applied' adhesive or screw on side reflectors to any
ForTwo in the UK

Smart UK missed a trick by not fitting them to every fortwo they imported once the ruling was made.  Remove the objection and make it a selling point.  I reckon a lot more folk in the big cities would have gone for a fortwo given the parking advantage which would have become available.

[El Tel]

In the US you have to have reflectors on the bumper front and rear, and they must be visible from the side.

Check out: https://www.youtube.com/c/Samcrac/videos

This guy has at least 3 videos (Mini, VW, BMW) and all have reflectors on the wheel arches front and rear. Necessary for US homologation.

I imagine this has something to do with parking as well.

Smart UK missed a trick by not fitting them to every fortwo they imported once the ruling was made.  Remove the objection and make it a selling point.  I reckon a lot more folk in the big cities would have gone for a fortwo given the parking advantage which would have become available.

They would probably have to do this to sell the cars in the US. I haven't looked, but if they did there should be a retrofit.....

[Ocracoke]

Off topic still but Canada had the 450 CDI as an import which had reflectors et al on it. The 450 needed a lot more than just that get approval in the US, I believe around the headlights where they wanted sealed beam units only. I can't quite remember the company name (GKL or something like that) that did do this conversation as a grey import.

The battery pack idea doesn't immediately strike me as a bad idea if they were inboard of the vehicle. Perhaps a bit of science fiction thinking (from the Fifth Element movie notably) but perhaps a (set of) tubes you could slide in and out of the side of the car to be exchanged with another set at a charging station somewhere. LiPo batteries wouldn't be that good at the potential long term storage but LiFe batteries would suit better there, even if they were more expensive and heavier to lift. Of course, that'd require adoption by a few major manufacturers to be a thing worth considering.

[El Tel]

Off topic still but Canada had the 450 CDI as an import which had reflectors et al on it.

I found a picture of a 450 CDI grey import from Canada, further modded to meet DOT standards for use in the US. It does indeed have reflectors on the side corners....

http://clubsmartcar.com/index.php?/topic/30668-fortwo-450-cdi-in-the-us/

However, I suspect that even with these, the jobsworth coppers in Blighty would still give you a ticket for parking sideways (even inside the lines) just because they could.

...I promise to stay on-topic from here on in

[snookey]

However, I suspect that even with these, the jobsworth coppers in Blighty would still give you a ticket for parking sideways (even inside the lines) just because they could.

Oh yes, absolutely they would.  That's why I said that Smart UK needed to do it at the point of import, then they could have appealed the (Home Office or DofT?) decision to prohibit the act of parking sideways on.  They would have had to do a recall for prior registered models too most likely, but I think it would have been worth their while.  Incidentally, do motorbikes have such reflectors?  I know I've seen plenty parked nose in to the kerb, even when a car is already in a marked bay.  Perhaps they're considered insubstantial enough that it's okay to whack one.

[jmariog]

Back to the battery packs added plus for slide in batteries would be that you could up grade the battery as they get smaller and more efficient.

[Problemchild]

I used to park my 450 sideways all the time

And I used to park in the same parking bay at work with my mates 450

JJ

[El Tel]

Back to the battery packs added plus for slide in batteries would be that you could up grade the battery as they get smaller and more efficient.

 I like this idea. I saw something similar in a book as a child 'what the future will look like' - Cars were shown having their batteries physically changed by robotic arms...

The biggest issue to this approach would be standardisation. Having the main battery under the floor along with 'slide in' batteries (Perhaps in tubular form?) seems like a great hybrid approach though. There's a lot of benefits to that eg. upgradeability, serviceability of the batteries, and an instant power topup, without taking up a charger space...

[Ocracoke]

Having the main battery under the floor along with 'slide in' batteries (Perhaps in tubular form?)

A pair of massive AA batteries. :p In my mind, there would be a few potential problems with this but none are insurmountable. If I was to retrofit my 454 with a system like this... I'd say it'd need to add in an extra subframe to house these, the batteries themselves would need to have keyed connection ports that are deep within the battery itself and the car have prongs it connects into (for those in the RC world, kind like a big EC8 connector) and have them in a cluster underneath the rear bench running horizontal and then, in the case of this hypothetical refit, have the access hatch underneath the rear bench.

I wouldn't ever recommend putting batteries at the extremities of the car on either the front or rear because lithium fires, as I've seen in my fighting robotics career, is nasty as sin, even the smoke from LiFe batteries is nasty business. You *definitely* want that crash protection.

[Problemchild]

The hybrid battery pack in my FILs estimate fits between the 2 front seats in an arm rest and give about 1 mile of EV only.

You could make a pack easy and you could make an electric smart car easy BUT integrating electrical power into a petrol drivetrain would be hard

Hence the bolt on

And in most retrofit hybrids you can attach a motor to the rear axle because they are FWD

JJ

[Coverman]

A retrofit hybrid would be a waste of effort. It would be simpler to rip out the hydrocarbon engine/ fuel tank etc and fit
an electric motor and battery pack. It would make a not very good electric car ( compared to the new purpose designed ones). My purpose built 5 seater hatchback hybrid car will run on battery alone for several miles at 70mph because the car is very aerodynamic,has  aluminium roof, bonnet and tailgate  for weight saving, and a large enough battery to facilitate this. The drive train and electronics are quite complex, way beyond anything someone could achieve at home or in a small works adapting classic cars to alternative propulsion.

[Ocracoke]

That was my idea, to completely remove the IC engine and replace with a electric motor assembly. Agreed that it wouldn't be something trivial to do, probably not a "at home" job given the scale of voltages and electronics needed (I do appreciate the work needed to make such a system work given my hobbies) and might not be as good as a full on electric car but I disagree that it wouldn't be worthwhile to do in terms of a retrofit if you are keeping something already made on the road with comparatively minor adaptation rather than building a whole new car around it. Going with a retrofit hybrid approach, there would be too many losses and compromises to make it viable I feel, even as a bolt on.

[CrazyG]

I have to agree with Ocracoke, and disagree with quite a large part of your
previous post Coverman, as the 454 is; if one removed the current engine
and gearbox; quite light.
How do I know this, well I pushed the stripped out rolling bodyshell for the latest
S2smartsRacing Brabus around the yard with virtually minimal effort !
Most 454's have a polycarbonate roof (that could be changed to carbon fibre
as per the S2 car...virtually zero weight), and GRP body panels...not steel,
so effectively it is as close to the perfect basis for an EV conversion as one could
want, or so one would think ?

The space occupied by the fuel tank and the floor section infront of and under
the rear seats could be utilised for a battery pack or packs, as too could the
spare wheel well if the same sort of 'repair pack' were provided as is with the
ForTwo...no spare needed.
But...why not use the engine bay for a big battery pack, and adapt/build a
new rear axle with the motors located there ?  The current rear axles are
all coming up for replacement or at the very least to have the bushings
replaced (with the SuperPro polybush kit), so why not take advantage of
that and convert or build a 'new' motorised electric rear axle and get on
with converting the car to full EV ?

I wholeheartedly condone adapting an existing vehicle that has potentially
10+ years of life (or more), and it IS far more ecological + carbon neutral
than to build a new vehicle with all the manufacturing processes and
environmental issues that are so 'neatly' kept hidden (just to ensure the
car companies keep going and make a profit)...not for the good of the
world and every living thing on/in it.